Unpopular opinion: PvP Isn’t Necessary in MMOs Anymore
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I know I’m gonna get some flack for this but I need you guys to approach this with an open mind.
recently, especially with the release of the Elyon and Swords of Legends Online Closed Betas, I’ve noticed a sentiment resounding throughout the general MMO community.
And that is that for an MMORPG to be “successful,” it needs to have a focus on PvP. The mere inclusion of PvP isn’t enough, though, no. The game, at its core, needs PvP as a focal point to survive long-term.
There is no way an MMO can exist, let alone thrive if you can’t fight other players.
And that opinion, which is mirrored by quite a few players left me sitting here, reading through all of these threads thinking to myself… but why, though? What about PvP makes it a necessity, where the game’s overall success is solely dependent on the inclusion of a single feature?
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I know I'm gonna get some flack for this but I need you guys to approach this with an open mind.
Should PvP be the main focus of an MMO? What would that even look like? Do you enjoy having PvP in your game? Do you even engage in PvP at all?
I'm genuinely curious and would love to spark a discussion with all of you. I'm seeing so much hate for PvP lately, but reading so many contradicting statements online from people of the exact opposite opinion. And for those of you that do think PvP should be present in a game, in what form? Open-world PvP without limitations? Arenas? Battlegrounds?
In my opinion, PVP is still needed but they must be separate from one another and should be scheduled or seasonal like weekly or seasonal " defend your territory" pvp and seasonal rankings colosseum pvp as it gives spice to the game after you finish all of the pve content. For me, I'm doing end-game pve content with the purpose of challenging the harsh pve difficulty in raids/dungeons and use their loots or drops to use and compete with others in pvp. So yeah, there needs to be a balance in my opinion at least so full pvp mmorpg games are a super turn-off for me.
8:20 What game is this?
I think the issue comes down to just plain open PvP. Meaningful PvP needs to be brought into PvP to make it good again. Objective Based PvP is where this could bring more people into the feature. Going after goals that require you to fight over different areas/objectives. Just plain ol PvP in an open world is just mindless killing. I think an Open PvP game could be really good, but so many games stick to the normal formula, of just full/partial loot, with nothing much else. How does random killing help someone who wants to just PvE? it doesn't, it only benefits people looking to steal that persons loot. I think people are just realizing how lame mindless killing in MMOs is. PvE players enjoy objectives (IMO) and they need that in PvP. Bring that type of PvP into an Sandbox-MMO-RPG and it would be more interesting to people. Also the other issue that ends up happening in these games is that people are on their own when they start out, having a good balanced faction system would allow for you to have many allies when starting out.
But a games focus should be whatever the devs want. Just make it good. If PvP is what they wanna focus on, then make an amazing PvP MMO that is not just a bunch of PvE content with some mindless killing and a half-baked justice system. Honestly the justice system in games like that is so pointless, it never feels good. Factions just allow you to get rid of that idea. I have a bunch of ideas for this specific genre that it makes me wish I got into game design.
I have been put off by so games with many incredibly fun PvE by getting randomly ganked/griefed while trying to do a quest. I was looking forward to Elyon for such a long time and was almost heartbroken when they shifted endgame focus to just PvPvE instead of PvP AND PvE
Just "Being PVPed" or "Causing PVP" isn't the only point to always on PVP.
It's the thrill and anticipation. "Will this guy attack me? Does he want my spot? does he want to party? Friend or foe?" You correctly anticipating their action, and choosing an appropriate response is the point.
People seem to not get the point, these days…
Pvp aren't balance most of the time though i used to enjoy it but in most mmo new class outclassed old class
Except aion and rising force pvp man those are good af
Please learn to differentiate between mmos and mmorpgs.
Strictly speaking, nothing is really "necessary" in an MMO except providing a large group of people with a space to do stuff, and tools to do said stuff. Whatever said stuff may be is largely irrelevant as long as people want to do it. That said, while PvP may not be necessary, I find it to be a net-positive for MMOs as it provides opportunities for unscripted, unpredictable combat encounters that keeps things from getting too stale (going against another player is worlds more engaging than beating on an NPC – doubly so if said NPC operates on a strict pattern with no deviation) – unless your combat system is just garbage for PvP (looking at you, 14), in which case it's better to save the time and resources than waste them on something that gets almost no participation.
How that PvP is implemented (open world, battlegrounds, arena, w/e) doesn't really matter too much as long as it's accessible and, for world PvP, those who have no interest have a way to opt out; though I'm a much bigger fan of separate servers than a war mode toggle, as something about being able to change the nature of interactions in the world based on your mood feels a bit off. Definitely prefer world PvP and battlegrounds over arenas, as the latter always felt a little too stiff and formal, while the other forms of PvP have a greater degree of chaos and complexity that I generally find more fun. Not a fan of ganking lowbies in world PvP, but have mixed feelings on systems to discourage/prevent that kind of behavior because it can be fun to see someone try to live with a deserved dickbag reputation when they're KoS for the entire server.
Pve is boring asf and can never be competitive, im not a competitive player mind you but but pve is boring and predictable and offers flat repetitive dynamics. Also allot of pvpers hate pve players because theyve ruined allot of pvp focussed mmos with their carebear copypaste attitude, pve mostly want a community chillgame rather than very engaging gameplay
"PvE players aren't sitting here claiming MMOs need dungeons or raids to be successful, well, okay, there might be a few people here that hate Black Desert because of that very issue."
Yes, hello, I am one such person. I am a PvE-only player (as far as MMOs go, I do heavily enjoy PvP, but on other game genres), and BDO couldn't hold my interest for long because I can only kill dumb, weak mobs for so long until I get extremely bored and tired. I know it's not a PvE focused game, but that's exactly why I ended up hating it lol.
I do feel like dungeons and raids with challenging bosses and interesting mechanics are a must in any MMO. That and a smooth, free-flowing action combat system that feels crisp to use, are the 2 most important things to have. For me personally, TERA is the one that hit the nail in the head with both of these things, hence why it became my favourite MMO and I accumulated 4k hours on it.
Whenever I play or try out a new MMO, I never engage in PvP. My main goals are to master my favourite class and push it to its full potential, and then to master every single dungeon/raid there is, especially the hardest ones. There's just an unexplainable thrill in being able to dodge 5 really fast attacks/mechanics at the same time, without even breaking a sweat or interrupting your perfectly optimized skill rotation. That's when you know that all your hard work has been paying off and that you've improved massively at the game and your character.
P.S: Nice controversial title, I see you've already drawn the anger of the self-important narcissistic PvPers, judging by the amount of dislikes. Gotta be careful not to anger those babies, they are constantly on their emotional edge, especially nowadays when most games don't allow them to grief everyone they want as they wish.
I just like how ashes of creation are going to do thing, we'll see how that turns out
Best Pvp for me is on dragon nest were equipment doesn't matter all u need is skills
it's cause E-sports potenial
With all the battle royals and team based games and other dedicated pvp games, the demand for PvP in mmos is just going somewhere else. And thank god for that.
The success of MMOs is based on how much players they can attract and getting killed with literally no way to fight back is literally the opposite of attractive to new players. This is just market demand at work and all the hype and hunger for PvP games is being fulfilled by games designed for it.
Carebears.
In my opinion PvP are better for MOBAs & Battle Royale because their progress is reset on every match.
MMOs in other hand, the one with most money/time will always wins and would always encourage for a toxic environment.
If there is no pvp the game is not an MMO to me, it's just a Massive Online Co-op, I see no reason to focus on gearing if there is no player I need to beat, let's be honest, most even pve mmo's are made in a way that even players that lag behind the gear can complete endgame content, and in most MMO's endgame content is there to give you best gear to use, and the only use of that gear is either pvp or super optimised repetition of that endgame content, which by itself sounds extremely boring, just take a look at Genshin where more dedicated players get super bored at the game since they can clear all content with bad gear, what is the point to grind better gear if there is no incentive
something I forgot to write in, why focus on gearing is important is that most if not all MMO's rely on gearing for the majority of it's content, it's rooted in the genre because pvp was integral part of it to go hand in hand
Not a fan of forced PvP to the point where if I decide to try out mmos with it in I usually quit shortly after I get out of the safe zone/ level, I just don't find the fun of being ganked by people with higher levels/gear while trying to do a quest or level up.
The only games where I have enjoyed PvP have been GW2 WvW at launch, FFXIV (although that might have been stockholm syndrome while trying to get event items) and Fantasy Earth Zero, which was forced pvp, but for some reason it clicked with me and I enjoyed it, it was also when I was much younger so maybe the age to pvp enjoyment thing you mentioned has something to do with it 😛
Pvp is fine as long as it is purely optional content and isn't the best option in order to gear for other things. It's worth noting that I think small scale pvp like wow arena's are generally very bad content unless the game takes a very active stance to ballanceing them, wow is a prime example it's pvp ballance is and always has been a mess and has expansion on expansion got less ballance than it was previously, which is less of an issue in battlegrounds because there are lots of players and it's messy but for arenas where there is only 2 or 3 of you in there ballance is needed and it just doesn't exist so they are just bad content.
Soyboy take…
If you cant pvp why should you seek the best gear of the game? In final fantasy even with the best gear, u will get 1 shot by the boss anyway.
I love mmos. I like pve, cause it makes me stronger to do pvp later.
PvP has always been part of mmorpg genre. It is the way of competing that keeps many games alive. PvE in many games is repetitive and once you learn the strat it becomes boring aswell. There is nothing better than getting group of players and improving every fight more and more. PvP is meant to be toxic cuz it is competitive. But imo PvP should be always optional and rewarding. Majority of playerbase is looking for non staged content in games, therefore openworld fights are the best ones.
It just depends on the games design. I have always loved PvP but not when it is unfair or shoehorned in. Both PvE and PvP can contribute positively to games depending on design.
I have never had more fun in a video game, then I did when playing Rallos Zek (pvp) server on EQ.
I wouldn't miss PVP at all.
There is now also a weird trend in MMO players where the majority of PVPer don't want gear to matter in PVP, which has always felt weird for me because at that point they might as well play a fully-fleshed PVP game like DotA.
Just came by to dislike
I played and enjoyed PvP-focused MMORPGs for a really long time. However, what turns me down about most [if not all] such type of MMORPGs nowadays is that most often than not they turn into a disgusting P2W race. This P2W situation makes the gap between F2P/low-budget and P2W players so enormous that PvP for F2P/low-budget players is just loathsome, to say the least. If PvP is not relatively balanced for the most part, it'll often hold off players from engaging it. That being said, it really doesn't surprise me that PvE content is starting to be a thing in current MMORPGs and that many of the current MMORPGs are striving without PvP content.
Considering I played RS for years just for pvp I can say I really like it. But then you have PvE as good as FF14's but its kinda forced on you, it makes sense PVP there is dead.
The thing now is, with streaming people is too salty and competitive. You cant just have a sweaty, salty community for pvp and expect it to last. Cause at the end its the minority made the standard with streaming.
this is why i dont play japanese mmo because a lot of pussies will just whine because someone just killed them, go play hello kitty online
My main reason to stop playing Albion (other than some lag issues when they moved servers) was the need to go into high level areas with my hard-worked simple gear and risk losing everything to PvP players, or stay where I was doing basically nothing as I needed that new equipment in the new area
The War of Emperium in Ragnarok Online was a good PvP in my opinion, it brought meaning for the PvP, for clans, and you actually benefited long term for winning it (you held a castle for a week if I remember correctly, having a castle allowed access to dungeons and other interesting places)
PvE carebear? Sure! You may address me as a carebear. I am chubby, happy, and when I pump my belly full of air, my chest glows with love (for PvE)!
I don't care as long as it's not anime based it'll be fine.
Focused on both over the years, depending on how the game leans – PvE or PvP. I agree Stix, my tastes have changed. I don't mind PvP as long as you "volunteer" to enter a battlefield or arena. Open world PvP now just seems a waste of time…there's no real gain from it other than petting your ego.
Honestly if a game doesnt have a good pvp mechanic, I get extremely bored and quit playing. I want my time to go towards showing im better than someone else in pvp and if im not I have a new goal to work towards. However im also a very competitive gamer
I have never like pvp in any mmo, they just don't feel like what it meant for.
The fact that now more "MMOPVP" games like MOBA, battle royal or FPS genre got popular rather than PVP in the MMORPG games indicates that RPG doesn't really need PVP originally. At its core to reach certain level and cooperate with others completing your "role playing" storyline is already enough. Either during the process being harassed by a PVPer, or after end game you have nothing to do but to PVP and waste money on competing each other was MORE FUN. Besides the key of PVP – balance is actually against many RPG elements like infinite leveling up or overwelming role powers. It's harder for developers to make "the perfect hybrid" as both PVP and RPG players are more demanding on seprate directions now.
IMO it's never been necessary, *ESPECIALLY* open world PVP which in general makes people be, well… arseholes.
I think a game can be successful without PVP, BUT point no.1: What's the purpose of grinding countless hours, upgrading your gear to its full potential, Killing Large raid bosses millions time just to get that very strong epic weapon you desire… all this, and you can't use it to another player and show how strong you are. Imagine Killing the last strongest enemy BOSS monster and getting its rare weapon,, for the reason of just using it to kill THAT monster again, all because that is the only strongest thing that you can hit or kill because there is no PVP feature. Point no. 2: Games with PVP has more potential, because in PVP contents, World tournaments, and World Champions are born. I'm not saying that MMOs without PVP is Bad, Im just saying that MMOs that have PVP has more potential. i think this is also why games like COD, DOTA, FORTNITE are famous because players compete with other players.
Open World PK PVP is something I despise. I'm fine with Duels and Arena PVPs. I just wanna be left alone when I'm gathering materials to craft or level my character.
Seems I'm in the minority in this comment section but personally I wouldn't even consider touching an MMO that doesnt include pvp, if I want a pve experience I will play a story rpg or any of the other genres with more interesting pve experiences.
I would add that most MMOs do a pretty sub-par job of implementing pvp, id argue devs putting more effort/time into it would likely result in less hate for that part of the game and a more enjoyable experience for all.
Kinda funny/disappointing seeing so much hate for pvp players as a whole, calling us all toxic while throwing insults at a strawman. To all of you shitting on pvp players, just because you dont like the way they enjoy the game, maybe remember the world doesnt revolve around you and stop being cunts for no reason.
Tldr: gg ez, git gud, ez clap, lmao casul, stop being a carebear lul.
PS: the most toxic people I find in pvp are pve players who cant handle the loss, food for thought.
I enjoy pvp far more than PvE in mmorpgs, have and will always. The problem is devs are half adding games nowadays with the intent to fix it in a patch so crazy bugs get found that cause one shotting and what not.
The SOURCE of PvP being branded VITAL for MMOs to succeed is Game Corporations.
(I.E. Activision-Blizzard [A$$division-Blizzterd], E.A. [Executive Azzh0les], Nexon [Sh3txon], Gamigo, Gameforge, Perfect World [Perfect Bvllsh3t] , etc.)
.. The reason WHY PvP is branded as VITAL is because money, straight-up Greenback, nothing else.
… Case & Point Stix, as you said it yerself, 9k! $$ on PWI just to measure your PvP "Manhood" in comparison to other players,
<just keeping it real man, not tryina diss>
which is EXACTLY what the Corporations are EXPLOITING on, er planning for. >_>
…. Cuz what better way to extort your own playerbase than LET people be shetbags to each other & then blame the VICTIMS for not ponnying-up the Greenback for a temporary, PAID-FOR advantage.
I rest my case…
i love mmos but ive stayed away from so many titles because i hate pvp and alot of them have a focus on it.
PvP isn't necessary in MMOs, but it is necessary if I'm going to play one. I just don't find PVE thrilling. But taking the time to create a build, and honing your skills in order to defeat other players in direct combat, that actually excites me and makes playing feel worthwhile.